Welcome to The Waterbury Talks. I'm your host Grant Copeland today's conversation is with Dr. Verna Ruffin, Dr. Ruffin is the superintendant of the Waterbury public schools, which now includes nearly 20,000 students across dozens of schools. Having started her career as a band director in Louisiana, more than four decades ago, she's now orchestrating a complex plan in Waterbury to better align teachers administrators, parents and partners in making beautiful music together that is in delivering quality education to an extremely diverse student body. Hear more about her background, her experiences as a top educator leading up to Waterbury and what she sees us so unique about the Waterbury community classes set to begin as the Waterbury talks with Dr. Verna Ruffin. So let's just start with some of the. Your responsibilities as superintendent of Waterbury public schools, what does that role entail? It entails a massive amount of responsibilities. And my contract says I may see all of the district and that means that I get to work with others to make decisions that will impact the lives of our students. Ultimately, that. Where the rubber meets the road. So from the staffing to the structures, the organizational, the operations, the finances, I am responsible for working with others and making that. And how many students are under your purview? We have approximately 19,000 students. Wow. And what would you say is the general makeup of the student population here in Waterbury? Oh, we have such a diverse student population in Waterbury and diversity on many different. Multiple languages, multiple ethnicities, multiple races in our district. I would say that we have predominantly 70 or 70 plus percent Hispanic and maybe 20% African-American we have a smaller percentage, perhaps 15% white, and we are very diverse in economics. You took the helm as superintendent in July of 2018, looking at Waterbury, what was intriguing about the operation? Well, I read about Waterbury before I apply it in, certainly after I applied and I knew that I was going to get an interview. I read about the diversity. I read about some of the challenges it faced from the governmental, the economics from student performing. I read about its location, some of the pluses within the business community and some of the struggles and what I saw there was so much potential and hope that I could work with a diverse group of thinkers. I saw also within all of that, uh, a school board and a mayor and a state that was ready for change. And I saw that in their attempts at policy and reinforcement of policy, that there was a commitment for, we have to do something better. We have not moved the needle. It's time to move the needle. And most importantly, sometimes people say it's time to move the needle, but they're not willing to make the tough decisions that will allow that to happen. I felt Waterbury was ready to make that happen. So I was intrigued. That said you weren't from Connecticut, you were in a different part of the country. You're right. I'm a long way from home. And I came here from Tennessee, but my home is Lafayette Louisiana. Actually, my home is Scott Louisiana, which is a small town as a suburb of. So coming here physically for the first time, I don't know if that was for an interview or a discussion, or just to look around, if you can recall back to that time, what were your first impressions of Waterbury? I can remember that very vividly. My very first visit to Waterbury. I saw an interesting city with the Versity, a city that was very proud of its culture. Proud of its people. My first time here, besides just having an interview, I used that as an opportunity to walk the streets. I was intrigued by the clocks and chimes that rang every 30 minutes, I think. And I was. By the history of the brass city. I was very intrigued by the fact that Waterbury has touched the lives of many people across the nation and, and across the world. So I was really fascinated by that I'm Catholic. So I was very much impressed with the idea that near. Chase building. I could just walk to church. So when I walked around the blocks, I had an opportunity to see that the people were out and they were friendly. So those are some of the things that I learned you must've had to have provided an opinion about Waterbury and the educational system in the interview process. What was that opinion coming in? I thought that if I could get this job, I could make a difference. So you start a superintendent. What are your first tasks? What do you see? What are you looking to do maybe with PayPal and really getting to hear what they had to say about the city, about the school system, what their roles were, what they perceive to be some outstanding things that were happening in Waterbury. Some of the challenges they were experiencing, I felt that the voice of the people was very important. So let's switch gears for a moment. Tell me about your upbringing. You mentioned having grown up in Louisiana. Yeah. Tell me about that. I grew up in Scott, Louisiana at the time. It was a very small town in rural Louisiana. And when I say rural, I grew up on a farm. About 25 acres of land. My nurse neighbor was approximately a quarter of a mile away. I was very protected. I went nowhere unless my mother and my family knew exactly where I was or they came with me. I spoke Creole. I grew up bilingual. The majority of the members of my family spoke Creole only. And I grew up speaking both. My mom started off working in the fields as well as my entire family at that time, my father, that my grandfather owned land and they grew all kinds of vegetables and fruits and cotton. And that's what she did eventually. She, uh, worked her way into being a housekeeper. And then later on. When I was in first grade, my mother worked in the cafeteria and then she decided to go into a store. She was a baker. She loved to bake. And then she worked at Kroger's in the deli department and she decorated cakes. And after that, she worked at the brass medallion, another fascination. Waterbury. And she became the assistant manager there and upon her retirement, she continued to work in retail and then she opened her own catering business. Tell us a little bit more about what childhood was like being on a farm with not too many folks around. It was very lonely. And at other times it had its advantages. My family says I was spoiled. I don't think that. But perhaps that's because maybe you wouldn't think that if you were, I remember loving to read because it just took me to places in the world. I knew, I couldn't see in Scott Louisiana at that time being in such a small town and not having very many people to play with. So I had a fascination with reading and with music, it was. So, uh, transformative for me. Was there a defined moment going back into your upbringing where this passion for education began? Was it around reading and music, or was there a moment where you. I felt that spark inside about wanting to devote your professional life to educate absolutely growing up in a small town. That's not very many things to do. And for me, there was something inside that wanted to do more, to see more. I attended public school for my first five years, and then I went to Catholic school. And at that time we did not have a bank. But the summer of my eighth grade year, the sisters of the holy family hired a part-time band director. His name was coli Bellamy. I'll never forget him. And he started the first band. And when he did that, our parents and students were invited to look at instruments. My mom was there and I saw this beautiful clarinet. And I said, I wanted to play the clarinet. And my mother bought the instrument for me.$199, probably a big deal. It's hard at that time to be able to do that, especially on the salary that she made, but she purchased it for me. And that opened up a door for me that I don't know that I would have been where I am today. Without that I was very quiet when I was in school, I had an accent. I was embarrassed. I wasn't vocal. And I teachers would say, Quite timid. And that was on all of my report cards. Verna's very timid. And when I learned how to play that clarinet, it opened up a world for me that gave me confidence, a true love for music and the arts that has taken me quite far. So your first job is as a band director at a middle school in Louisiana for 14 years, that, that stem from an interest in wanting to become a music. At stem from an interest in my wanting to teach music, Mr. Bellamy, who was an outstanding teacher, he exposed us to many opportunities to perform, which I think helped me find my voice as if I didn't feel confident in the accent. If I didn't feel confident in my speaking voice, I certainly felt comfortable in my plane. Oh, the instrument. And so I believe that I want it to teach that. Children. That's where that came from from band director, you serve as an assistant principal in three different schools. What was that transition like? It was interesting as a matter of fact, every place was quite interesting how I got there. I didn't know that I wanted to be an assistant principal. Um, one of my mentors, uh, thought that. Do well in, in that his name was Lester Dion and I still talk to him today and he said, why don't you just try it? And I went back to school and got another degree and took a sabbatical so that I could really experience what it was like. And I fell in love with. And immediately after completing that degree, I became an assistant principal for a very short time. And at middle school that I was recruited to go to high school. And then I was recruited again to go to the same high school where I did my internship. And so I did that. So to make the move to a high school principal, that sounds like another. Much more complex task. What was that like the transition going from assistant principal to the principal of a high school. That was an interesting journey because in Louisiana at the time, it was very difficult to be a principal of a high school. At that time, there were three openings in the high schools and there was a new superintendent coming in and he hired me as a principal of north side. Which was one of the most challenging high schools in the city. Then you expand into school district director and area superintendent. That seems like another large leap. Was it? It was when I became the principal of the high school in Louisiana. Superintendent left a couple of years later and he went to Texas and then he offered me a job in Texas as another principal for very large middle school. And so I went to Texas to be the principal of that school. He left. I stayed at that point. I, I knew I wanted to be a superintendent. I didn't know that many years before, but I knew at that time that I did no prior to coming to Waterbury, you were in Tennessee serving as a chief advocate. Officer for the state department of education and that focused on something that's really intriguing to me, the achievement school district, which seems to have a pretty unique model. What were your goals there? And in your time there, what were the reasons. Well, what's interesting about that role is I was a superintendent in Jackson, Tennessee, and they hired me for some really tough changes that the entire district wanted to make. And it was a wonderful experience. And when I left, I left to become the chief academic officer for the achievement school district and worked for the state department of Tennessee. They were a combination of. Uh, traditional schools and charter schools, all working for the purpose of improving student achievement. In that one model over the last four plus decades, you've been everything from a band director to a principal, to a superintendent. How has your experience in all different aspects of education formed? What is now your vision and water? Well, I always go back to when I, I passion for music and I always go back to this, the fact that I probably will always be a band director and a teacher at heart. And I can tell you why, if you are good at your work, you really learn how to orchestrate. You learn how to organize. You learn that it's not just one tone or one voice, a one instrument. Every instrument, playing a significant role in making the symphony in making the beautiful sound, or you have to take something that maybe no one else can see and you have to work with it and crafted and tune it so that it all. Plays together really well for our final outcome, which is wonderful music that is pleasant to the ear and is pleasing to the soul. In order to do that, you've got to take something that may not have been anything other than an isolated squeak on the side and develop it so that it becomes something masterful. Well, let's jump into some specifics around the Waterbury public schools. So you have a vision, you have a start to your plan. You begin executing that plan. What are some of the successes or indicators of success that you've already seen? I think one of the greatest indicators of success is people are starting to be a part of that vision. I think seeing that from our teachers, from our students, from our principals, administrators, from the senior cabinet team, from parents wanting things better for their children, when you started seeing it move in the positive direction. When you started seeing more and more of the growth for my students. When you see our graduation rates improving, you have proof that something is working and you want to continue to support that. And graduation rates are higher and Waterbury, since you arrived, particularly significant gains at Crosby and will be high schools. What do you attribute that to the process? More people buying in? I think that is attributed to the principals, the teachers, the leadership at those schools. I really do because graduation rates are greats that you start working on when students are freshmen in school and the structures that you put in place to make certain you are identifying students very early. If there are challenges with their graduating on time, you put in. Specialized programs that would help them to be able to respond to why are you having the struggle? I can give you some specifics that occurred at Crosby because Crosby has, uh, started at ninth grade academy. I think that we're seeing the results because you're going to pay attention to your students, uh, in an intentional way as ninth grade. 10th graders, 11th graders, and then seniors. So you have more seniors coming in that are prepared because you were paying attention to them all along, whether it was an attendance issue or a credit issue. If students had a problem coming in after school, you made accommodations so that you could meet their needs and other. Did a little research and you contributed to a book titled new perspectives and educational leadership, and it seems your insight was around a couple of really meaty topics. Cross-boundary leadership, community schools, innovative schools, and building trust within, uh, communities of learning. How has that past research being applied here in Waterbury? I think it it's significant before you can lead people before you can really make a difference. People have to trust you. It's not just about me. It's about each other, because if you're not gonna believe that someone is taking you. Path. You're not going to go there. You might give it lip service, but you're not actually going to go. How do you earn that trust and, and how do you build it has a lot to do with the community engagement and that's more than just, I'm going to help my child with their homework. I think in the area of cross-boundary leadership, you can't have just one leader sitting in an office. Making improvements for a city like Waterbury, you have to be willing to go outside of that seat to other seats across the city and engage in partnerships and meaningful conversation and dialogue, and most importantly action that takes you to the next step. So it's not just one person. It's are you comfortable enough making partnerships and relationships with people that might never have been at the table before in order to make a difference? Some of your partnerships have been very innovative. I think about Waterbury public schools and post university, as an example where select students can now earn an associate degree whilst. Being in high school, how do innovative community partnerships like this even come about? I first arrived in Waterbury. I had conversations with higher ed leaders and leaders across the system. And post definitely connect it with me early on and asked what ways can we work together? They were so open. Innovative ways of being able to do that ways that perhaps we didn't discuss at that initial meeting, but it was just a willingness to do things that could benefit our children and benefit a greater community that led to us beginning the early college high school. And I don't think that's going to be the. I may be putting some words in your mouth here, but it seems like a lot of the successes that have been created throughout your career. And certainly here in your time in Waterbury is about taking very complex concepts and boiling them down into more simplistic terms. So they're actionable. It also seems like your philosophy is simply centered around doing what's best for the. At its heart. What does that mean to you? Is that the correct philosophy? Am I reading that right? Is that the philosophy that's being executed here? Yeah, very clearly. It has to be what's best for children and that's not just a cliche. It's really getting to know. So what is best for. If we know, and we have for years that none, even when Lawrence at the same rate and not even one, Laura's the same way. Why do we insist on putting everybody in the same programs? And I think that it's challenging work because it's certainly not something everyone subscribes to, you have to have very strong instruction. Absolutely. Everyone should have. And then what happens? What are your systems like? What are your hiring practices? Like? What's your talent pool at the table to make that happen? It has to be for kids. It has to be what what's the outcome for our children? Does the educational or academic support model look like for students and families here in wa. What it looks like is a traditional model. And what we are, are trying to do is to move it to a model that allows for true differentiation, for someone to be able to learn what it is they don't know yet, but then move forward in an accelerated manner. What's your take on the quality of call them the educational stakeholders, the teachers, and the administrators here in water. We have some outstanding teachers and administrators in Waterbury. We have some teachers and administrators that will go far beyond. I think we have to create a structure that allows them to be able to grow in full as a Waterbury public school student, regardless of what age level or specific school that they're attending, what can they expect to get from their educational experience? I think they can and should expect to get hard quality, educational experience. They should expect that their teachers are going to genuinely care for them. And that means that if they're struggling academically, they know their teacher can respond to that. And if they're struggling socially or emotionally, that there's the support system within that school to be able to help them. I think they should expect that we are going to provide the educational opportunities and more than one. Uh, so that we can meet the diverse needs of our multiple language speaking, student enrollment here in Waterbury, and a large number of our families do not speak English. What's the portrait of a graduate. When a student leaves a Waterbury public school, it was something that the community came together and created. It identifies some of the characteristics and strengths that we want our students to have the critical thinking, the perseverance, the grit, you know, pick yourself up just to continue to learn. There's often a generalization that public schools are somehow a significant crack down from other learning opportunities. Is that no, it's not fair at all. Having worked in and been exposed with multiple systems, the parochial and the Catholic, the private, the public education. I will tell you that our best teachers on public schools Fe no. How to work with all children. And when you have this masterful teacher in a public school system, that teacher is priceless that administrators priceless because they don't see those barriers. And they look at the child and they know that that child's success is really hanging on to that teacher's belief. And that teacher's dedication to making great things happen for kids. No, I think that. Certainly an injustice that has been labeled, uh, with public education. We have civil rockstars. So what's your view of the future? What's the top initiative. If there's a top initiative that your office will be focused on over the coming years? I think it has to be more than just an initiative. It has to become a culture that we build a change of mind. The people who are hiring people, the people who are supporting people, the people who are operating a business, the people who are in charge of all academics. So we can make certain that we never stopped doing those things that are going to intentionally change the way that we operate in the system. Well, technology play a greater role in the future. This idea of distance or virtual learning, is that a requisite at this point? How does that play a part in the educational model of future? Technology's going to play a vital part and it's not going to be the technological tools that we place in the hands of the children are that we place in the hands of the teachers. How do we use it? To learn, how do we use it to deliver instruction? How do we use it to expand our learning? I don't believe the technology will ever replace a teacher ever, but I do believe that the technology is going to replace how we say we're going to differentiate instruction into this is how we differentiate instruction. And that's one of those issues that as I talked about cross-boundary leadership, we can't fix it alone in education. It's going to take business. It's going to take companies coming forward and saying, as a part of this Waterbury community, this is what we can do to help our community have access. Let's talk specifically about educational systems in cities. You have a lot of experience are around the country or careers, taking it from Louisiana to Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and now in Connecticut, it's intriguing to me that you've been an educational leader. In amongst other cities, Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is about four times the size of Waterbury in San Antonio, Texas, which is about 15 times the size of Waterbury San Antonio, where of course you spent several years. Has had the second largest population growth in the country in recent years. And your observation, is there something happening in San Antonio that Waterbury should try to replicate? I think that within San Antonio, they spent a tremendous amount of money on their schools in terms of building an industry. The thought process that went into the infrastructure of the city was amazing from your grocery stores to your new types of malls that were very popular. You had communities, you had your entire infrastructure for that community. So if people didn't want to leave their community, they didn't have to the affordable housing. Quite a reachable to purchase a really nice sized house in those areas that we're talking about. And so you had an affordability and ownership. People could own their homes and they moved into the neighborhood because it was easy to have access to all of the amenities that they could possibly imagine. Right. Within driving distance or walking distance. There are lots of partnerships with colleges and universities, and they're all. Them at the end of the Texas in San Antonio area offering various opportunities for the students there. How would you say education is tied to a city's economic development? Is that public perception or is there more to that? Oh, there's much more to that. I think that the education. Um, gives people the confidence that they need to locate or to relocate to a city opportunities for children to grow into flourish in innovative programs that meet the needs of communities that you want to serve and others to want to live in. So it's a huge tie in it's tied into the confidence that people have. That if I move there, there's going to be more for me to do here. That I can send my children to school. I could invest in, in the community that I live in. I think there's a sense of pride that people have when they can send their children to a school system where they can also live in the city. I think that's huge is tied into the default. Let's talk about some things that many people may not know about. Tell me about your, they were examples of who and what you would want to see in a human being. They didn't only talk about being fair or talk about morality or talk about. Good work ethics. They were examples of it in their lives. They didn't say, Hey, just call me when you need me. They just showed up. They still call today. Some are in their eighties and nineties, they still call and I still call them. So I think. For me a hero is someone who's always there. You mentioned your mother earlier on she's a hero. Yes. My mom is a hero. My mom is my hero. Every state I've gone. I brought her with me and my mom has been a cheerleader and a supporter. And in every single way has lived to been an example of everything that I've just described without her. I would not be here. She's worked through some pretty tough times. She's seen a lot. I will tell you I couldn't pick cotton today, but she did it and she did what she needed to do to get to a better life. And she did that through example, not through words. I will always know that my mom is my hero. I've heard two of your favorite movies. The sound of music and the godfather somewhat argue. Those are on very different ends of the spectrum. What about those movies intrigues or inspires you? They are, and, and, you know, I could have listed and a number of them and they wouldn't have been just equally on opposite sides of the spectrum that you could possibly imagine the sound of music, because it just resonates with myself. The beautiful story, the beautiful scenery. And of course, who doesn't like Julie Andrews and it, she just the story, the distrust, the perils in the world at that time. And of course the difficult decisions that had to be made based on what a person believed in politically and morally in value. So all of those things, but the music was just outstanding and it's still to me. Godfather. It has its own intrigued me. And I don't know why I've always read or followed those kinds of prime movies. And in the mob stories, I love the accents. I love the names out in the story in and of itself. Just this person of dubious background had. Love and the compassion and the loyalty that he was able to garner from the people that believe that he could do anything, whether you agreed with them or not. That's what he was. If you have any free time, which it sounds like you don't. What would we find you doing? Probably cooking and inviting people over so that I could feed them. I love to entertain the other thing that you might find me doing. If I ever had the time, I love to dance either at a dance studio taking, you know, ballroom dancing or something of that sort. The third thing you might find me doing is at a very nice restaurant, enjoying a glass of wine. There are several very nice restaurants where you can enjoy a glass of wine here in water. Absolutely. When I first came here and many times thereafter, I went to New York. And I enjoyed that very much. Then later I got to go to several others, let tabula and signatures, and I go to the art of yum pretty regularly. And just like walking that little strip in and enjoy. Different places here outside of Waterbury. What are some favorite excursions or places to visit? I love the fact that we're really close to many beaches and just a dry fare is rather relaxing. What are some of your favorite things to do here in the Waterbury area? I enjoy going to the movies. I enjoyed walking downtown and just taking a stroll in the afternoons. When I'm here at the office, I enjoy going to the moon. And just to join the downtown area. And, or so now that you've been in Waterbury for a while, how has your time here shaped your view of the city? What have you learned about the residents here and the community spirit? That Waterbury has just an exciting place. I see it because people love. Being in Waterbury, they love each other. They care for each other. They show that by the way they respond, if someone is in need or if someone is hurting or if someone has a particular issue. Here to help. I think that's a genuineness. I see with the people in Waterbury. Plus I see that Waterbury influences other cities in Connecticut. Rarely have I gone someplace, whether it's a superintendents organization. Meeting or the state department or a community meeting that's held elsewhere. And someone does, is say, I used to live in Waterbury. I know someone in Waterbury. I have connections in Waterbury. Waterbury was very dear to me. They gave me my first job. I hear those things from people outside of Waterbury. So there's something about Waterbury that has been a connector for many people in the state. Additionally, I think that. great spirit here in Waterbury, one of service, one of dedication and people who are genuinely wanting to see Waterbury, be the place to be, uh, that's genuine, uh, anywhere from political offices as economic offices, as willingness to bring in new ideas. I think that that is a genuine spirit of Waterbury that is quite unique. Tell us about what it means to be a leader in Waterbury, a female leader in Waterbury, the face of the entire public school system. What is that responsibility like? At times it's quite lonely as the leader of the school district. I take that very seriously. I represent all of my students, my teachers, administrators, families, our parents, you are that person that people are interesting. Critical decisions to move the district forward. I take that very seriously everywhere I go. Talk about the educational depth in the Waterbury region. You've got not only K through 12 schools, but you also have institutions like post university, UConn Naugatuck Valley Community college technical schools, and so on. How does the saturation of learning institutions distinguish Waterbury and benefit your public schools? I think that we have started conversations to expand just the pre-K 12 system and to a much deeper conversation. Involving higher ed, that's going to be critically important. Our students need to be ready for the higher ed experience. I think it's our responsibility to prepare them for such, but I also think there's a time and a time is now where the institutions of higher learning partner with. So that we can prepare our students for specifics that will tie them in to not only that post-secondary college experience, but we'll tie them to careers and to work. We've designed our career pathways in Waterbury high schools to meet the needs of Connecticut, to make certain that our students are marketable when they. And to make certain that they have those skills and talents to be successful. We're preparing them for that economic move. And I think it's going to take our pre-K 12th system along with the colleges and universities to partner in ways that we can make that happen. Collect. So I think we have to not work in silos. We have students participating there. I think we need to continue to grow that. And then we have to recognize that we have a very large adult education program here in Waterbury, young people of all ages coming back so that they could either earn a GED or earn their high school diploma and earn meaningful work. And so I think we have all of that here in water. So, if you had to, in a statement or a thought, explain why I would have my children in the Waterbury public school system, what would that statement be? I think it would be the opportunities and the innovative programs that we have anywhere from a traditional learning environment that some children grow and prosper in to the innovations of some of the magnet schools that we have, whether it's an elementary math. Because of academics or because of the arts or because of language or whether it is an opportunity to immerse yourself in a bilingual program or an opportunity to participate in an academic academy or whether it's a magnet. Art school such as we have here in Waterbury or a career academy that we have here, or a special program to address the gifted and talented students at a high school or an early college high school. I think that Waterbury has it all. And I think we're on the rise. I think we're going to see more innovation and I see more advancements for our students to be successful. I think that's why people need to come to school and Waterbury. What comes to mind when you think about the word opportunity? I see an advanced organization that meets the needs of the stakeholders. How about the word, vision? Think. The ultimate place that we have to go on behalf of all the stakeholders. I don't want to bury. It comes to mind. When you think of the word success, people working together actionably to make certain, that all means all. What comes to mind when you think of the word education, a guaranteed, right. That people have, that we're going to invest in the education of all students. What about the word students? The people that we're here for the reason for our existence, the learners, regardless of age. Whether it's a pre-K 12 student or a teacher learning, or a superintendent going back to school to learn. We're all students. What comes to mind when you think of the word community grew up of people that genuinely care. About the existence of not only their city, their town or their group, but who genuinely care about people. It's how I think about community. And what comes to mind when you think about the word Waterbury? I see all of those things. I see our loving, caring community that is deeply vested in the people that they serve. With a huge vision for what that would look like a redefinition of what success looks like, uh, with the community at heart. This was wonderful. Thank you so much for the time. Oh, thank you. Listen to the full series from The Waterbury Talks and learn more about Dr. Verna Ruffin, the Waterbury schools, the educational depth in Waterbury, and all the city offers thewaterbury.com