Welcome to The Waterbury Talks. I'm your host, Grant Copeland. Today's conversation is with Susan-Jane Caballero. Susan-Jane is a leader in the field of fashion design, textiles, and decor, with professional stints at companies like Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger. Recently, she created her own brand called Sacra Indumenta, which makes bespoke garments, accessories, linens, and gowns for sacrament milestones. Hear why Susan-Jane chose to bring her family and business to Waterbury, what local resources helped professionalize her plans, and how she compares Waterbury to other markets like Fairfield County and New York City. It's an articulate and inspiring conversation, with some surprise answers. So sit beside us as The Waterbury Talks with Susan-Jane Caballero. Susan-Jayne, thank you so much for the time today. Thank you for having me. You own an amazing business that creates so many works of art. Bespoke sacred vestments, liturgical linens, gowns. Give us an overview of soccer and Dementa. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to introduce such a beautiful art and one that might be a niche for the average person who appreciates textiles and the textile arts in general, or even just fashion. It's, a little niche that celebrates the sacred moments. In the lives of people that are connected immediately to those sacred spaces, but also families and individuals who celebrate a lot of these techniques that have been preserved over time, and most especially family heirlooms, the connection to, creating family heirlooms that are perhaps important to us. from borrowed family textiles and new creations that keep that line and that thread of continuity going in technique and historical design. What's the brand story of Sacra Indumenta? What does it stand for? Sacra Indumenta stands for sacred feathers or covering in Latin and it took me a long time to figure out how to keep the name of what I do broad enough and With an umbrella that sort of embraces and encompasses the love of these arts number one And number two with a nod to where Most of it is directed right to the, moments and milestones in people's faith life, with their families and just keeping the whole word sacred and covering really a very broad stroke, and not so pointed, but a little bit more universal. So I love to think that it's like the birds or the animals where they have their covering and it's very diverse in the world of nature. And in this world of textiles, it also is very diverse and covers many types of people. We're sitting in your beautiful studio in Waterbury, but the operation involves affiliates in New York City and around the world. Take us around your quote unquote network. Take us around the globe. from the heart of it beginning in New York City when I made my son's first server vestments to then moving our operation into Norwalk where it really had its grassroots beginnings, and then my vendor base from my days in corporate, 30 years in industry is a really long time, to connect and engage fabric weavers, embroidery artisans, textile artists of all kinds and companies that I worked with in industry from Fashion and home textiles, and then connecting them into this great idea of creating these beautiful designs and these garments, and then bringing the whole operation here to Waterbury, Connecticut, where there's again, excitement for new business. an amazing community of people of all backgrounds, ages, stages in their business, and an enthusiasm to be in this best kept secret on the East Coast, in my opinion. so the trifecta of being in New York and the world and then back to Waterbury is an amazing It seems extremely difficult --to do, but how does one get into the couture garment industry? That's a great question actually. and I have the fashion Institute of technology to thank for my, my actual hard earned degree in fashion design, tailoring specialization, and learning. The arts, of, the art of garment construction and design and the engineering behind it, right? My, my education was hard fought. I came from the Midwest to study at FIT and, it launched me. My beginning is into the actual industry, the fashion industry and working at Ralph Lauren for over 15 years and other companies where all of this skill set, the ability to understand the science, technology, industry, art, and, the whole encompassing, skill set, right? The toolbox of being a fashion designer. started in New York City at FIT and then, went from there. But a side note is that I was sewing my clothes and sewing from patterns and working in a fabric store since I was about 13 growing up in the Detroit area. so I had a lot of novice experience, great grandmothers, and a mother who. could build a house out of fabric and crochet. And that, so the foundation was there, but my education at FIT really solidified what would be a professional career. So having previously worked in the designer fashion industry, what was the adjustment like when starting your own business and sacred vestments? Can you talk about the transition into a different audience and any similarities or differences between those two industries? Yes, but I'm gonna start with a quote from my father. There's no substitute for experience. And the one thing I can say is You don't know what you don't know. And for everything I learned in industry at, in a corporate creative environment with great brand houses, stellar experiences with wonderful teams, support, infrastructure, process, all of that was the well oiled machine of established companies. So when you begin the process of taking that into your own realm, launching your own brand and creating your own product line, you start to see the people missing when life gets crazy. So you wear this hat, you wear that hat, you wear this hat, so designer, pattern maker, sample maker, merchandiser. sales person, admin, and then accounting. And it becomes a very different landscape. And this is where the WBDC, I have to mention them, that is where the WBDC came in. I know I needed help. I knew I needed help. I need help now. And without them, I don't think I could have organized. The number of people or the positions, right? Not even just actual people. If it happens to be company of one, but the amount of roles that need to be occupied and the process that needs to be put in place for your own infrastructure, you need help from business advisors and professionals who do become your auxiliary team. So what was the spark, if there was a spark, or what was the driving force behind wanting to build your own business? The amount of years that I had been working in other corporations, giving my best skill set, design ability, and leadership management skills, reached a threshold, right? And I had been successful, had a great reputation. and a great overall ride. The wonderful world that is provided to you with your hard work back, right? That's a reciprocal relationship. But there was still something missing. And it was because I needed to be able to create something of my own. I think that this is a common answer and I think it's an honest one. You reach a point where you work for the best places and for other people, but you've got all these great ideas of your own. You've built relationships. You have contacts everywhere. People are enthusiastic about your ideas. And it deserves the platform to be formed and to have its own voice. so I hope that's an honest answer. That I'm grateful for everything that I was given and I learned. in industry a lot of great things. Areas of process and organization and design, greatness, best in class technique. but I wanted to employ all of that with all of those pockets in my mind where ideas would fomate and just stay there, right? So this is an expression. geared toward a very welcoming audience who desires and appreciates this art and put that into something that I take a deep breath and take on myself. Referencing the work, it's so ornate, so precise. They're really stunning works of art, I would say. Heirloom quality. How do you reach this level of skill? So I'm going to go, thank you, by the way, but I'm going to go back in time to when I began crafting and, using my hands with the textile arts. So this would include family members, as I mentioned, my mother, my grandmothers, both of my grandmothers, my mother, Where that was always valued, right? The idea of handcraft, in all of its forms was valued in my home. And I would say in a larger part of the communities in the era I was born and the place I grew up in, I believe that was valued. So it began there. That's the starting point is, learning great technique for cutting fabric, learning about fabric, how, what different qualities do when they are constructed this way and so on and so forth. so that training ground began in my family at home and in my immediate community, and again, then I turned it into an education and sought a place to do that, which again is F. I. T. Without pursuing the serious discipline of study, and a BFA, I don't think I would have sharpened those skills or been curious about what was in the rest of the world, right? I spent a whole semester abroad while I was at FIT in Paris, France. with an exchange program. So right there, had I not gone to FIT, I wouldn't have had that experience right in Europe, where, 99 percent of these techniques have been developed and, lovingly cherished and continued and preserved. And there I was up close and personal to, cathedrals and, vintage markets and things like that. So even though I had no idea I was going to go into this specific realm of ecclesiastical, arts with, sacred textiles and things like that, had no idea back then, but I was exposed to having, been up close and personal. in vintage markets and so on and so forth alongside contemporary fashion design and the arts that move fashion along in that era. So all, the whole ball of wax was, my, my desire as a child and always drawn to textiles to then my serious commitment to pursue the education. Let's keep rewinding a bit. You mentioned growing up in the Midwest and the Detroit area. Yes. Yep. Tell me about your parents, your family. What was the landscape of your upbringing? proudly born and raised in Livonia, Michigan, which is. Not even 15 minutes from downtown Detroit. with, a mother who grew up in downtown Detroit and a father who, went into the automotive industry, but grew up in Indiana. solidly Midwest, right? So that's the happy smile and the hard work ethic. two great Midwestern parents who, supported All of us, my brothers and sister and myself, creativity, individuality, and also the pursuit of excellence through hard work, charity with one another, and the freedom to pursue what was true to myself. here's a family where the arts were appreciated, not necessarily as careers. With, my mother and my grandmother, and an engineering father. He didn't quite totally understand the fashion industry, but together my parents very much supported my pursuit of this, tangent to being an engineer. My, my father was great about relating some of the technology and science behind garment design to what he was as an engineer. and my mother who already embraced the beauty of technique, legacy, and the pursuit of excellence with handcraft. the combination was great. And. I have a fantastic relationship with my parents. They are so thrilled about what I'm doing. They're thrilled about what I've done in my professional career. And as a working mother, they've always supported the professional aspect of who I am in the context of my personal life. I can't say enough about my parents. And I love and miss them every day. That's the one downside is that geographically we're not so close, but we make all the efforts that technology allows to be close. So thanks mom and dad. And how about your family now? You have three children, a husband. Tell us about life in a more immediate sense. Life in the immediate sense is beautiful as well. It's like the blessings just don't stop and everything that becomes um, a challenge in life is also an opportunity to love more. we always talk about this, that we're the artist family and we embrace that, right? with all the beauty and comedy that it is. my husband was, traditionally a pianist and an organist. He has his master's degree in organ and choral conducting, but became a financier and works in the world of finance now, for a long time. And, I've always been in the arts, but I had a professional career that was in corporate and now I'm You know, doing my own thing. And our children have watched that transition. They've watched their father go from, full time, artistic director in these amazing spaces and, full time professional work to then going into the corporate venue and mom doing the opposite. So it makes sense that, our oldest child is in art school at a school of visual arts. And our second child is also going to. in the music industry and our third child, is too young to really know what she wants to do, but she watches all of this and has her. Her own sense of creativity. So it's lively. It's vibrant. I would say the word to describe what we have is Vibrant and actually Waterberry has allowed us to have this space to breathe Having been in more condensed environments and spaces all this time, but no less appreciative of the immediate connection to some of the epicenters of culture in the New York City area. But Waterbury is not devoid of that. it's almost like you go from New York to Waterbury and there's that immediate connection in this New Haven County area. that is a surprise and a delight and it allows that vibrancy of our family to even grow stronger. New York City to Norwalk to Waterbury. What was the impetus to come here? practical things actually, right at that time where I was shifting out of industry and my husband was wanting to go into industry, right? Where I wanted to reach towards starting something after such a long career in corporate design, right? and he wanting to relinquish a little bit of that full time presence as an artist, as a musician, to then going into the other world he was interested in, which is Something, business related, but, definitely not specifically art, right? so we made a decision that in order to do that, there was a rebuilding that had to happen. And New York City was just not practical. If that's the most delicate way I can say it, it just wasn't practical for us as a family of five to stay in that area. In the beautiful place where we did raise them in Riverdale, it just became too condensed. We needed breather space. We needed a physical space. We needed a platform where our cost of living would be more conducive to this transition. And so we made our slow crawl all the way to New Haven County to the very last corner before Litchfield County starts, to where we are now. And, I don't think we're going back. Aside from my weekly trips to teach at FIT and see my vendors in the Garment Center. You mentioned WBDC before the Women's Business Development Council and you've leveraged a small business grant from them. and WBDC has an office in downtown Waterbury and is really growing their presence. What have you used the grant for and how has it been working with the folks at WBDC? So this has to be a whole realm and interview unto itself because the WBDC is the wind, Beneath my wings, right? all the encouragement to keep pursuing an excellent idea and adding infrastructure, right? not to give up, to. Create discipline, right? And to build practical things. So my project was operation organization, to build out my work table space, my dress forms and a lot of the equipment that you see that allows me to actually do work on site here in Waterbury, where I have an expanded studio space from where I was in my little lab in Norwalk, in a space that we didn't own, and a space that was too small for an operational design studio. So they gave me this. the ability to actually have, tangible supplies and items that will help me actually create these great works right here. and the ability then to offset the rest of it, in my relationships that are back in New York City, where I am there the least amount of time and here the most amount of time, but wouldn't have been able to do that without their support. Was it intimidating to approach WBDC and apply for a grant? a little bit. Yes, a little bit. prior to the grant, the intimidating part about approaching these great women in business who have fostered support for many different types of businesses, that in itself was intimidating when the Small Business Administration back in 2020, the end of 2020. directed me. This nice gentleman on the phone, when I just called out of the blue, I knew I needed to do something to make this official and I needed help. And when I was on the phone with the SBA, he was the one who said, you have to call the WBDC in Stanford. They will help direct this whole process for you to form what it is your business needs to be and so on and so forth. So my first call, I was, connected to a business advisor who really ripped the band aid off and she was tough love in the most amazing way where I hung up the phone and I was dissolved in tears. I felt like such an idiot and I saw all the holes in the way I was thinking as someone who worked for corporate design environments rather than creating my own infrastructure. And it was at that point then that I felt extremely intimidated to even have a follow up call, but I did it anyway. I'm glad I did. And from there, they helped me with my small business plan with the GPS course. And then I won a Launchpad grant at the end of that course and then continued on to establish an actual business. And then when I moved to Waterbury, I applied for the Waterbury Business Grant, which then helped me build out this business. actual, items that make the studio functional, right? And allow my garments to actually come to life rather than be stuck in bins. I have storage solutions that I will build out as I am able to in the lower level of this space and hopefully eventually have a packing and shipping realm and some, temperature controlled storage. That's the long term. Is WBDC still providing guidance or support? All the time. I meet with at least once or twice a month with the business advisor, Sherry, who is very instrumental in helping me with QuickBooks. I don't think a business can run without an accounting program. And I was dismissive. I'm gonna admit this. I was dismissive back at the time that I took the GPS business plan class, that I would need to do too much with QuickBooks. that's all changed. I'm on QuickBooks every day, tracking what my business is, right? every penny. And, so I'm often speaking with Sherry about advice for how to navigate, build and, keep track of my business through QuickBooks and, there's also business advising for how to actually grow your business, right? So there's a never ending support system for whatever stage you're in, right? And you can't have all the information at once. It needs to be rolled out as your business grows. And something that Carol Cheswick, who led my GPS course, told us when we were in our course in early 2021, that you hit a point sometimes where your business goes down and then back up and then plateaus. And at every stage that I've experienced in these years, since I've launched, she's been dead on the money. with what I would expect, how it would feel, usually a little painful, and then where you come out of it saying, oh wow, this is a better place. But you don't learn that when you're working for another corporation as much. I would even venture to say that isn't really even the experience at all. But when you own a company and you're responsible for zoning the space and tracking inventory and filling orders, Then you really need the support from the entire team at WBDC. There's a quote on your email signature that reads, without craftsmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind. Who or what inspires you? it's an appropriate connection to the love that we have in this space, in my personal life of music and the fact that all of the arts converge. So in a home and in our hearts where all of the arts are. in our souls. music has always been the most sort of person. Now I'm getting really, very personal love, right? Even outside of what I love about the tangible arts, the textiles and, color and everything visual, there's the abstract love of music. And the quote by Brahms is really a, important because craftsmanship exists in all of the arts. So it's not just singularly in visual arts, right? or it's neither singularly in music as an art, but tactile arts and everything else. So without that love of the excellent and the pursuit of the highest form of your craft, which is, really drilling down to what Brahms is talking about. They just become inanimate objects without the soul of craftsmanship, without the actual personal investment that one makes for excellence in their craft. So we're not shaking reeds around here threads and spools and cuts of cloth. We're crafting them into expressions that become wearable art. Businesses, especially through the lens of their owners, which you've touched on a few aspects of ridership are much more than products and services. You've referenced a few angles, if you will, about how you see the world and how you see the business and the market, but for your business, is there a, can you crystallize the higher purpose? Let's just say that every business does have a higher purpose, whether public knows it or not, because there's, there are people behind every business. So in a very, human way, it takes human beings. It takes souls to create a business to serve their communities. and in my case with Sacra Numenta, I believe I actually get a sort of an, And not an easy pass, but a very comfortable pass to, something that's beyond being that a lot of what I create goes into a space where people stop, they pause. And they recharge their life. I'm not responsible whatsoever for the supernatural things that happen in, in sacred spaces, but I am privileged to be able to create art that is connected and for some of these purposes, right? so that's where it goes beyond. it goes beyond because I use my soul. And my craftsmanship and my pursuit of excellence to pass it on to someone else who uses other skills to be able to, to do that for families or for the families who then have these garments that live in, in, as heirlooms and passed on. And that thread is just where. Everything is outside of the tangible. Are there any guiding principles that you've formalized? I know you've referenced work ethic, you've referenced trying to reach the highest level of your craft, but is there a certain life or business philosophy that's driving you? I would say at the heart of what drives me is the art is at its highest level of craftsmanship and design. But on a personal level, I do feel that my own personal faith is something that does give me the wind to be able to pursue this form of the textile arts versus had I done an extension to home decor, contemporary fashion, right? and I think it's okay to admit that, right? where some subjects become polarizing. I'm definitely, I don't live in that sphere. What I have is for everyone to enjoy. and I really take pride in the fact that there is beauty no matter where you. come from and a point of view. There's value that is reached when you see some of my work or appreciate some of the inspiration behind the vintage pieces, and it becomes a positive, right? in a world where unfortunately, there's a lot of negativity right now. I'm not going to be part of it. I'm only going to be a part of it that converges people together to celebrate the arts and, the moments that draw us as a community, and that promote positive engagement with other humans, I, I'm a firm believer that charitable, the charitable spirit behind everything that we do, Is most expressed in my experience, most expressed through that charitable exchange between people and the arts and that once you draw down into another sphere where it gets dark, I try to stay away from that. And I try to keep everything, very much, Open. I would love to see this company actually reach out of the current sphere with the faith based items that I do for, the Christendom into other faiths. textile arts. I have such a exposure and a curiosity to many of the global arts that come from lots of different cultures and lots of different backgrounds. And I have a really good friend who went to F. I. T. With me. And, she grew up very strong with Judaism in her background and married a rabbi. And she Consults with me to make some of the garments that she makes for her husband. We both have a fashion degree. We both went to F. I. T. together and we're still friends after 30 years and we draw from one another that the love of the arts, right? so I just, that's where I want to be in, in the space where I connect to something that's otherworldly in what I do that also provides an income for my family, for myself, and is lucrative in that sense. It's also doing something outside of that connection, and I don't know where it's going to go. I don't want to have limits for what I'm doing. you seem to have expanded already beyond the business proper. You're really a voice in the field of vestment design. Tell us about some of your thought leadership, if you will, being an adjunct professor at FIT. Workshops that we've seen. Walk us through how you're giving back to your own field. Thank you for asking me this part because here's where there's unexpected, success and, additional vibrancy that I hadn't. Imagined when I left industry, coming back to FIT to teach as an adjunct has been nothing short of an incredible experience to be connected to the next. generation of fashion leaders, fashion designers, product development specialists, merchandisers, and artists in general, to be on that side of the table as an instructor. It doesn't have a price and it is almost something I can't describe because I see the enthusiasm. in students. I see that their curiosity is awakened when I bring something from industry or something from my present work, experience or something from a hardcore global experience and travel or whatever it is that I bring into the classroom. And of course the skill set, right? So all of that in combination, you see it back in the faces, with their questions. with their, their challenges, right? when they ask for recommendations and want to do a student exchange program. That's where I'm so excited. That students actually hear what my experience was as a, an exchange student and then they're inspired to do it. and I can't say enough about the fact that there are incredibly hardworking people at the Fashion Institute of Technology on the faculty side, the chairs of departments that, keep inspiring, they keep up with technology and everything that's moving the narrative for this industry forward, right? Whether Again, you're on the product development side or merchandising and analysis or design. the convergence of what makes the curriculum strong at FIT is So much more exposed now that I'm an instructor than even when I was a student. so that's that space workshops. Oh my goodness. If I had all the time in the world, I would do more workshops, but I've particularly been engaged by one particular, guild. The St. Veronica Altogirld in, Pittsburgh, they are located at Most Precious Blood of Jesus Parish and they have invited me twice. we've created two full mass sets, which are five pieces each, and a cope, a, which is a special cape like, vestment that is from the like it's floor length. And, we created that this past summer from scratch in three days. so that guild is very serious and engaged in what Sacramenta is doing and particularly in what I'm teaching them so that they can have a center of excellence of creation within their parish community, within the wider community in Pittsburgh. And I'm honored to be able to bring the skills to them. And many of the women in the guild have. unbelievable skills. Outside of attending a fashion program or not, incredible skills, and they're all very humble about it. So that's a gift that they've invited me into their midst, and that I'm allowed to share my skill set with them. Yeah, I would do that a lot more often if I could. Everywhere. Let's head back to Waterbury. Yay. How have you found living and working in Waterbury to be? Overall, so positive and A breath of fresh air, there's space, there's nature, there's commerce, there's vibrancy in the community to look at space, whether it's old factory space or whatever. Someplace downtown or a wide open field that hasn't been developed and find the synergies for local sake but also local for global, right? I don't feel that Waterbury has A stagnant point of view. They had, it's a very forward point of view. There's only up everywhere. You look in all of the leadership here, from self government and local government and everything else. And the state of Connecticut, cause I have to give it up for the state of Connecticut is very pro business, small business, local business. but Waterbury then just continues that momentum to allow. Lots of folks from all over the country, not just the East Coast moving around, but all over the country coming here and being able to thrive with ideas and. using everything in the contemporary landscape with technology to foster continued growth. of the three children, how has the experience been for your child? That's in the Waterbury public schools. I have a high school senior at Waterbury arts magnet school and. It is on fire. If we had known about WAMS, when we moved to Connecticut, we would have probably moved farther North. It is a tremendous school. and the Waterbury public school system has been organized, articulate, very, swift to support us as a new family. no questions asked, just open arms, right? engaged. That's the best word. If you ask me one word, it's engaged. Waterbury public school system is engaged. and I think that, again, that goes back to all of the families and the leadership here, you can't get that engagement without the people behind it, but it's infectious, right? so it's all positive on my side and I know we haven't been here for very long, but, We're really grateful. A community doesn't always provide that immediate connection when you're new. Sometimes you feel like you're doing the hard work to get to know your environment. But Waterbury has been very friendly to us as a family and especially to my one child in the public school system. for decades and decades, as you probably found out, Waterbury has really been known for no nonsense people with great drive and work ethic. How do you feel like you can contribute to that legacy? I'll just roll up my sleeves and join Rank. the Brass City is strong. And I think Brass is no less a great metaphor for the hearts of the people here. This is the brass city and we all have brass hearts. so when you join rank, you just do that. You roll up your sleeves and say, how can I help? What would you say to other entrepreneurs and businesses about the opportunities for growth here in Waterbury? I would say, what are you waiting for? where business has become saturated in not only industry is plural, but also on the East Coast. And I'm going to rip the bandaid off and say, while that's a good and a bad, a pro and a con, the one nice thing about Waterbury is that there is an openness where it's limitless. If you come here with an idea, it's supported. because everybody who's coming here with an idea and something to build in the community for both lucrative business for themselves, their families and whatnot, do so with that upward mobility and, no It's like unfettered in a good way, not unfettered in a bad way, but unfettered, give us your idea, right? Not this is a parameter for a good idea. These are not great ideas. No, it's, do you have a great idea that can create business and jobs in this city? How can we do that and work together so that We continue to grow and make life more vibrant for the entire community. By the way, bring your diversity, bring your inclusion, and everything. There's no sort of secret wink. it's open. I've haven't seen this in a really long time. and we've been on the East Coast as a couple and as a family, like I said, for almost a decade. Some odd years actually over. I don't even want to think about it. I came here in 1991. So what does that mean? On a personal level. What do you hope your children see? What do you think your children would say about their mother following her dreams? I think that they would say, yeah, that's mama boss. I think that they would be proud. I think they are proud of me because I've been true to myself and we've asked of them to be true to their talents and their abilities and as human beings that want to do good in this world, they would see that what I'm trying to do is not bad. enter into a realm of business that is already saturated and where there's just so much competition and little room, they would see that I am Separating myself from that and pursuing something that again, touches on a higher level, as you pointed out, I don't always try to focus on that, but I think they do see that. but yet it does circle back to, good business practices. And they would also see that is where it needs to have a place in the real world. And in combination, it gives them the confidence to then do that for themselves. And right now, I don't have children that have launched into actual careers. They're at the precipice of deciding what's the best education or how am I going to use my education and what options are there in a tougher and tougher world, right? Economically. Socially, politically, life is never going to get easier for us, right? So they know that. But what skills are we giving them? We're giving them the freedom to educate themselves and pursue their dreams by showing that as, mom and dad, right? But certainly from mom's standpoint, I'm doing this, without a big corporation behind me. Susan Jane, it was great to spend time with you today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Listen to the full series from The Waterbury Talks and learn more about the Women's Business Development Council, programs and incentives for local businesses, and all the city offers at thewaterbury. com.