The goal here is really to provide positive stories, positive perspectives from business and community leaders like yourself. Reframe for people who maybe have a little bit or no perception of, of Waterbury, so they can see it for what it truly is. And, I think it's an area with a ton of assets, both human capital and otherwise. so we appreciate you taking the time and providing your perspectives, Eric. tell us about Ideal Fish and your role within the company.

Sure. so Ideal Fish is a, an aquaculture company. we grow a species that is not native to the United States. It's a species found in the Mediterranean and by growing it here in Waterbury, we're able to grow a fish that otherwise would take upwards of a week, to arrive on the diner's plate. And in Waterbury, we have found this fantastic place, that is centrally located in the largest seafood market in North America. Between Boston, and the Washington DC, this is called, in seafood parlance, "The Golden Triangle." And,, anybody in real estate will tell you that, , it's all about location, location, location, and we are right in the middle of the biggest seafood market,, in this part of the hemisphere. And we're just delighted to be here. It's just a great place. It's a fabulous city. It is a beautiful city. And, we're doing something really special that I think is going to change the way that seafood is supplied, not only in this country, but I think globally, in time. And, it's just been, it's been a really exciting process for us to be here.

And where are your fish sold?

They're sold all over. we are sold in the grocery stores. we sell to restaurants. and, we are now selling, very, large amounts of our fish online, through our e-commerce, our web store on our website. we're on amazon.com, as well, so you can go to Amazon if you want to buy our fish there. but I think what has been important for us is, that, we have distribution channels, that, address all of our customers. And, some like to have their fish delivered to their door, which we can do from our facility here in Waterbury using a crowdsourced,, Uber-esque type distribution platform. we also use, the overnight couriers, FedEx and UPS. and then we drive our box truck, our refrigerated truck, to the large grocery stores and institutional food service providers to deliver that way.

Your business has been featured in everything from industry and trade publications to the New York Times. Is that because you see your business as something more innovative than the typical operation?

Yeah. I, I think that, land-based aquaculture, growing fish on land, is something that is naturally interesting to people. I've heard the expression said, "Well, you don't grow cows in the sea, tell me how it is you grow fish on land." And, and what you're seeing, , behind me is exactly how we do this. We create, in a facility like this, a large artificial, life support system. And what we do is we grow fish in tanks. But we do it in a way that the fish grow much more healthfully and much more quickly than they would in the wild, because we're able to control all the living conditions in a way that optimize that fishes, performance. That's what it's called an aquaculture when fish, convert feed efficiently into weight and grow in a healthy way and grow more quickly than they would in the wild. this is all, the high performance levels you're seeking to achieve when you grow fish on land and what you can do in a system like this is optimize everything from the temperature of the water, to the flow rates the fish swim against in the tanks, to the salinity levels, the hardness of the water, the type of feed you provide the fish, the extent to which the fish are managed or are handled or not handled. All of these can be optimized for that particular species of fish so that they grow quickly and economically, and that's what we've been able to achieve here in this facility.

You founded Ideal Fish in 2013, what was the genesis of that?

it started with an aquarium that was in my house that I bought with the idea of teaching my kids a little bit about fish and life and death and how nature works and how complex systems can organize to support life. And that's really what happens in aquaria. you have all types of microbial colonies that establish to deal with, contaminants and fish waste and things like that. And as I should have predicted, the kids had very little interest in any of this. Even the fish were of marginal interest, but I became quite interested to the point where I was commuting to New York City, at the time I was working on Wall Street and I would get up at odd hours of the morning just to go do a water change or clean the tank out because that was the only time of day I had to do it. And I learned a lot about, how you create an artificial life support system for marine fish and through my reef tank. and at that time I was also, working, providing financing to water filtration companies and learned a lot about it, through my Wall Street experience. And, it began to occur to me that there was certainly a way that you could take everything that worked well in marine aquaria and use it to grow, fish for food. And I happened upon recirculating aquaculture believing at the time that it was, it must be an enormous industry. This checks so many boxes, Grant, that, it must be so well established already. And this must be, where people would buy a lot of fish in this country. And what I discovered is it wasn't. That there were very few facilities, like the one that I've built here in Waterbury, that do what we do. And, and there are a lot of reasons for that. there had been a lot of, very, I think valiant attempts made by extremely smart, dedicated, hardworking people. and I come at this with a lot of humility because I don't presume to have any better skills or know-how. but, but what has happened is technology has improved and I think even more important, the consumer today now is very concerned about where their food comes from. Not just their, their beef and their pork and their chicken, but their seafood as well. And they want to know how was it produced? Where was it caught? How did it arrive at the grocery store and how long do they have to eat it before, they need to be concerned about safety. And this is what recirculating aquaculture really now can provide better than any other form of aquaculture. we know exactly when our fish came in, we to the fish, know where we've cultivated them, what they've eaten. We know the day that they were harvested and the day they were provided to the customer. So we can provide complete traceability, and do it in a way that provides comfort that the fish have produced, been produced in a sustainable fashion. We recover all of the waste products of fish production, the food, the uneaten food, the feces. And we use those through a composting process to provide, alternatives to petrochemical fertilizers to the local, vegetable farmer here in Connecticut. So it's a wonderful closed loop system where the waste products of one food production system become the nutrient inputs for another. And I really see this as becoming, a large part of the way we produce food, globally in time, starting here in Waterbury.

You're on the avenue of industry here in Waterbury. What was this building prior to Ideal Fish?

The building had been built in the sixties by Waterbury Button Company. And, this is a shining example of, what Waterbury has offered. Over the years, back in the, sort of pre-second world war and immediate post-second world war period, Waterbury was a metal fabrication, center of excellence in this country, globally. A lot of the big companies that, from Timex to the plumbing companies, brass companies, all had metal fabrication finishing facilities here. And Waterbury button was, was one of them. And for a long time was one of the leading manufacturers of buttons in this country. In fact, civil war historians, and antiquarians will validate, civil war uniforms by looking at the back of the buttons and seeing if it, it bears the Waterbury Button emblem. and this was obviously a later style, button that was made here. but it was a big injection molding operation and they were electroplating these plastic buttons with gold and silver, and even have a vault in this facility, which is where they stored the gold and the silver ingot. And the vault was the one thing we couldn't move. So it's still here today and we've turned it into an employee lounge, but, Waterbury operated, Waterbury Button operated this company until about 2011. And, and then it was dormant for a few years and we moved in in 2015.

Ideal Fish is essentially a specialized manufacturer, no?

We are. In fact, that's one of the things that I think is important to, educate consumers about is that we're not really a farm in the sense that we rely on natural environmental, meteorological conditions to grow our fish. we are much more a fish, biological production facility. Where we take a specific organism in this case, a, a species of marine ocean-going fish that happened to be delicious to eat, and we grow them in a way that optimizes the, the DNA of that organism so that it grows more quickly without stress, without disease and it converts protein more efficiently into body weight. And we do that using, an array of very, very sophisticated technologies that allow us to measure, everything from water chemistry parameters, to, how the fishes are moving and how they're putting on weight. We have scanners in our tanks, the fish swim through, and these scanners measure the size of the fish. So we don't actually have to pull the fish out of the water. We already know how these fish are growing and whether they're getting bigger and whether they're performing according to our expectations. And if they're not, that's a big red flag. And that means we need to get in, dig deep, pull some fish out, take a look, see if they're not eating right, not eating, in a way that's producing a healthy response, to the feed. And this is the fascinating part about what we do. It's that intersection of life and nature and technology, all in Waterbury.

I may be stereotyping you here, but you're a Fairfield County guy. How did Waterbury get on your radar?

I'm sorry to say, but to some extent by happenstance. knowing what I know now about, Waterbury and, we've talked about my daily commute in the past, I drive from Stamford, Connecticut, to Waterbury almost every day. And it's honestly one of the most enjoyable parts of the day when you drive up Route 8, through the Beacon Falls area and you see these rolling hills and, and, and then you suddenly, your panorama view of Waterbury nestled in this little valley, with the clock tower of Sienna poking up, out of one side. It's, it's, it's a really thrilling, drive. but it's not one I would ever have planned to have made. had I not, found the building that I did. And that really was a big eye opening experience for me, because I realized that this is one of, many buildings that are appropriate for the type of operation that I'm running here. And it's an administration in this city that is very pro, business, very pro, entrepreneurship and very pro-taking risks and, and helping, people like me who were trying to skin the cat a little bit differently, get on their feet, with the kind of support, that it takes to do something that's disruptive. So, I look back on, that chance occurrence of finding this building without actually looking deliberately at Waterbury as a turning point in my project. Because I'm here, I've had, tremendous experience that is important for any new business to get started. You have to have that ecosystem of, stakeholders, supporters, whether they're elected officials, or they are the department heads that report to, the municipal administration, or it's just, concerned citizens who are interested in seeing you succeed. These are all crucial to either starting or moving a business to a new location. And that's, what's been really helpful to me and I'm very grateful for it.

And there was a fateful meeting with the mayor and his department heads?

It's one I'll never forget. I honestly didn't know what was going to come out of this. I'd had a chance to talk to Mayor O'Leary about, my project and, and he, in his very enthusiastic way, had really, understood quickly what I was trying to do. and then I got a very cryptic, request from him to attend a meeting, the next week. He wasted no time. And I had no idea what to expect. And I walked into a conference room in city hall where the entire conference table was lined with people sitting upright and with note pads. And I was told to spend no more than 15 minutes outlining my plan and my program, which I did. And at the end of the meeting, Mayor O'Leary looked at all the department heads and these were the administrators of all the key city functions from water treatment, wastewater treatment, building, zoning, health, every department head required, to permit or to assist me in the construction of my business was there. The mayor stood up and said,"Okay, you've now heard from Eric. And what we're going to do is we're going to get Eric and his business established in Waterbury as quickly as we can. And that was it. The meeting was over and I walked out and I have to say, it's just been one of these remarkable experiences where I've just gotten support from every governmental agency in the city. this is a new technology, even the DEEP here in the state, has not had to regulate a company like ours. And so, I've gotten support and, and groundbreaking innovation from a regulatory standpoint to help make this business possible. And, it all started with the snowball that began rolling here in this town.

You've been around the world. You've seen fish hatcheries, farms, fjords. How is Ideal Fish different in terms of its sensitivity to the fish and to the environment?

Fish farming, has, a varied reputation. some folks think of it in a positive light as taking pressure off oceans. others, look at sea cage aquaculture, which is when you have these gigantic pens that are in the ocean and all the food and waste products settle to the bottom and create, environmental, degradation. so it depends on, on your own perspectives on fish farming. One thing is clear is that there's a better way to do it, and there's a better way to grow fish. And, and that's the way we're doing it, where, where you're able to, completely mitigate the environmental, environmental impact of growing, of growing fish. And we do that by controlling everything and being able to, avoid discharging any waste products into the environment. So the only thing that comes out of this facility is a small trickle of water. And that goes, to the Waterbury, waste treatment facility where it's cleaned up before it's discharged, into the environment. So this is, this is a different way of raising fish from a sustainability perspective, but I think what is as important is that you are able to raise fish right in the middle of the communities that you want to serve. So rather than having to import this fish from abroad, have it flown, overnight, from the Mediterranean and go through all the various distribution legs, before it arrives on your plate. we're able to harvest our fish, package them up, and within 24 hours deliver them to our customers, whether they are the household who was ordered it via our e-comm website and asked for, in some cases, same day delivery or, it is the restaurants and the grocery stores, for whom sustainability and freshness is crucial because that fish has to stay fresh and, and potable, for awhile. so, this is a, this is a really important feature of what we do and why we're different. And I think why we will start to see recirc aquaculture, become, a bigger part of seafood supply.

Well, you've built quite an impressive facility here for branzino. What are the other expansion goals of Ideal Fish? Are you contemplating other fish species or even things beyond fish?

Oh yeah, we have very ambitious plans to expand here in the Waterbury area. one of the things that we, want to do is to grow additional species. And these will include things like, maybe a flounder or a turbot, salmon, very possibly, Arctic char, red snapper is high on our list. These are all, fish that, aren't native to the Northeast. And so by growing them here, we can provide, the, the seafood lover in and around Connecticut and Boston and New York City and Philadelphia, a far fresher, traceable product. And if we locate our facilities, within, kind of driving distance of one another, then I can drive all the same scale economies that I would have had if I'd put everything under one roof. and I can create, efficiencies and workforce and, and create a business that has substantial critical mass, even though it may not be in the same building. And Waterbury really allows you to do that because there's a lot of, what I would call robust industrial infrastructure in this city to support an expansion plan like that. And, we feel like at this point we've cracked the code on, on how best to raise fish, like a branzino here in an indoor facility. And now we want to roll out and expand the business and grow more fish. We want to centralize our processing and ultimately our distribution, and being right at the nexus of Route 8 and Route 84, provides a great opportunity for us to, throw our fish on the, on the backs of trucks that are going as far north as Maine and as far south as Florida.

So what's the potential for Ideal Fish to create more advanced manufacturing jobs, and particularly for those jobs to be filled by a local workforce?

Well, that's the great thing about being located here in town is that, Waterbury is, a, a richly industrial city. It's one that generations of the workforce have worked in processing lines. And so it runs, kind of in the labor's DNA in this city about how do you run a production operation? so in addition to all the support services, the electricians, the plumbers, the HVAC, service shops, the, the, the workforce here just has a very strong, hereditary base on running, industrial processes. My very first employee is a young woman who, graduated from college with a degree in marine sciences and aquaculture, and she lives literally within walking distance of my facility. And she has gone from being, a entry-level aquaculture technician in our facility to, recently being promoted as our fish health and performance officer. So a fantastic career path for her so far. and, in the four years that she's worked here, she's made a major contribution to, to the growth of the company.

Could Waterbury perhaps become a center for sustainable food production and distribution?

Oh yeah. I think this is the kind of location that an industry, such as the agri-technology industry, would want to, to have. it's a, it's an area that has all of the required power, wastewater treatment, access to clean water, building space. this particular facility has 22 feet to the low steel. So it's very important to have the right ceiling heights, almost in any type of agricultural indoor controlled environment agriculture. And again, the location is, second to none. I mean, there's just no, way to, to overstate the importance of, being in the center of this enormous, not only seafood market, but food market. Hugely, intensively populated area of the country, a lot of food eaters here and, and people that need access to healthy, fresh food year round. And, farming, produce in fields doesn't happen in the winter months. But if you grow it indoors in a hydroponic system, you can have access to fresh vegetables, 24 seven, 12 months a year.

So time to switch gears. Tell us about your childhood. What was your upbringing like?

Well, I, grew up in a family that valued fishing. No big surprise, I guess, right? And, my father was an avid fishermen and it didn't much matter, what type of fish he was catching. but what did matter was that he ate it. He wasn't a sports fisherman. He wasn't out looking for trophies. whatever we, we fished for, and caught, we brought home and we cooked and we, and we consumed and that was, kind of a family ethic for us. so this, I think perpetuated an interest in fish for me. And then, I, as part of my water filtration background, developed an interest in aquaria and, and that was something I did at an early age. And my parents were very supportive and, that age, I, memorized all the books on various tropical fish. And, and I think I've, I've already told about how I tried to get my children, with less success, interested in that, but that ultimately blossomed to, to building a, mini re-circulating facility, in my house. And this was probably back in 2012, 2013. I had first developed the idea, trying to see if there was something to re-circulating aquaculture. And, without telling my wife about it, I went and purchased all the equipment and had upwards of about 2000 gallons of water, circulating in tanks in my basement and, bought some branzino fingerlings from a hatchery up in New Hampshire. and marched my wife down the steps, to see, what I had done. And as you would imagine, I was greeted with considerable amount of skepticism, particularly when I told her that I was considering leaving my, Wall Street job and entering fish farming, which didn't go particularly well. But, she went from being, one of my greatest skeptics to being the person that would, at the end of our dinner parties or whenever we would entertain, would take the group of hapless guests and lead them into the basement to show off her husbands, her crazy husbands, Rube Goldberg, DIY aquaculture system. and that happened really well until she started noticing, pieces of equipment from the kitchen missing. And somehow another ending up as her prized salad bowl did as part of the, aquaculture waste management system. So she's been a real supporter and a big trooper through all of this. And I think, was equally happy when we signed the lease in Waterbury to see the entire basement system move up here.

You grew up in the Baltimore area. after graduating high school, what was the plan at that time?

I worked in finance and, my career path really up until 2011, 2010 was, in finance and I worked on Wall Street and I was an investment banker. I ran a hedge fund for a while that invested in water, filtration, water technology companies. And, and, and so, as happens, I think in many cases, your careers evolve and, and your interests evolve and your expertise evolves. And, I'd like to look back on this and believe that there was some kind of manifest destiny here that some kind of grand plan, maybe there was. but, eventually all the roads began to converge, from, my nascent childhood interest in fishing and time spent with my father, to, to understanding how to finance and run startup companies, to water filtration, to, running, some early-stage water filtration companies before taking the big plunge and, and, raising, raising the capital to build Ideal Fish. So it's all been kind of part of the, in some ways a uniform trajectory to get here.

Was finance the beginning point? I understand you went to Princeton and majored in architectural history.

Yeah. So you look, I think I did what money folks do, and I spent my college years, learning how to read and write and think critically about things and architecture was, was, an interesting way to do that. But, it became pretty apparent, I think while I was an undergraduate that my skills lay elsewhere and Wall Street at that point was calling, as I think for, for many people, getting out of, college and business school in the late eighties. and it was a good training ground. I think a lot of the skills that I learned, on Wall Street, how to build financial models, how to analyze decisions from a financial standpoint, have been key part of our management practices here at Ideal Fish. We don't do anything, at this company until we have evaluated it from a financial standpoint and tried to understand how that decision can affect, cashflow ultimately. So yeah, it was, a great training ground for me and I brought most of those skills with me, as a fish farmer.

Like myself, it appears that you married up and, married a superwoman. Tell me more about your wife and your family?

Yeah. No, what she's doing with me is unclear. but I think she felt she was marrying a successful and, likely financially, prominent investment banker and then suffered, probably the worst bait and switch you could possibly imagine. that, happened on the day I told her I was going to leave all of that behind and launch into aquaculture. there's a funny joke that's told with aquaculture and it goes something like this, "How do you make a million dollars in aquaculture? And the answer, of course, is you start with 2 million." And I think she was concerned that that would be how our, our family finances would likely go. And, And I'm happy to say that, our fears on that have been largely elayed, there is a tremendous, business opportunity in this country, I think, to do what we're doing. And, and she's been a big supporter and she's a physician, she understands, probably more than most, the importance of good nutrition. food as medicine is a huge trend, in preventative medicine. And I think, the medical community understands that the best way to pull costs out of the cost of medicine in this country is to prevent people from getting sick. And so in the, in that way, our respective vocations are very aligned. I grow fish in part, and this is very much the truth, because it's a good product. It's something that I can sell and encourage people to use, knowing that it will impact their health in a positive way. And I think for, for my wife, this was a key part of, of, her, support for what I was doing. Seeing that this actually does have a very positive, impact on the health and wellbeing of human beings.

And what's the dynamic with your children given the fact that arguably, maybe literally, dad's closest friends are fish?

Yeah, we refer to them as my employees. So I have about 300,000 at any one given time. yeah, my, my children, a little more complex story there. I think for a good portion of the early years here at Ideal Fish, they were pretty puzzled as to what their dad did. I think it was hard for them. They were young. They were, in upper, sorry, in lower and middle schools. and I, I think the whole idea of growing fish on land seemed as foreign to them as growing cows in the sea. And, I think they were often asked what their dad did and, and I'm not sure exactly how, how they answered that question. but as they've grown up, I think they've really become a big, supporters of the aquaculture movement. Both of them have had jobs here. Both of them have been summer interns and have, done everything from, harvest fish, to package fish, to clean the poop off the floor, to, feed and, and, and evaluate the, the animals. And, and my, my daughter played a big role in developing our early branding decisions. Thinking about what logos we should use and how, the image of our company should be communicated, to, our customers. And the whole notion of, ideal fish, fish being cultivated and produced according to very lofty ideals, was something that she, she had a hand in. So it's, we, we have sort of fish blood coursing through our family veins here.

So it sounds safe to say that your wife is a bit of a hero. Are there other really influential people or heroes in your life?

Well, one of the things you learn when you are an entrepreneur and you are, struggling to put together, a business is it's like building a bridge, from each side of the river at the same time. And somehow or another, the bridge has to kinda meet in the middle for it to be successful. And you're never really quite sure how things are looking as, as that construction project, continues. And all along the way I've met people that, had a huge impact on my thinking. when I was just getting started, I called a gentleman who was the head of a, of all places, Brooklyn College's, aquaculture, Institute, he's a, he actually lives in Litchfield County now just 30 minutes away from our facility. And, and this was back in 2011 when I didn't expect anybody to return my calls and he returned my call the next day and gave me support, said, "What you're doing makes sense. And here's some ideas that you should think about." And that was just a little bit of a nudge, for me to take the next step. And all on the way I I've found people like him, his name is Dr. Martin Schreibman, who, had taken an interest in what I've done and made suggestions. and I think I mentioned it as in mayor's case, I needed someone to basically, galvanize an army and, and, and, and get, everything from the regulatory, process underway to, helping make innovations on our facility to make it better. we got support from the Waterbury Health Department on our processing area. How to, how to set up, everything from our wash stations to, the floor drains in a way that would, make this a safer, more sanitary operation, which is, obviously crucial to any food production system. So, you just have to, look for it and, I think it was the, the leader of the Scottish Himalayan expedition that, I'm quoting loosely here, but says that "Whatever it is, you, you want to do, whatever you dream that you want to do, go do it because there is power and energy in innovation. And at some point all the, the, the attributes of providence, conspire to assist you and open doors and, and give you, access to resources that you would never have dreamed possible. So just go do it." And that's pretty much what I did.

You've said in the past that every entrepreneur should watch the movie, "The Martian", how is "The Martian" analogous to entrepreneurship?

That's a great question. and I really do feel that way. I don't want to spoil the movie because I really do feel like it's a life lesson and it's not just entrepreneurship that follows the plot of "The Martian." But basically this guy gets stranded on Mars and his spaceship with the rest of his crew returns to earth believing he's dead and he's not. And he has to figure out how to stay alive and stay alive long enough, to be recovered. And it's one series of, plans and disasters after the next. And what you learn watching this movie is that there's a limit to how much, forecasting and advanced planning as an entrepreneur, or even as a human being, you can do. Because there are conditions that affect what happens that are way out of your control. And so you kind of have to focus on whatever the challenges that are right at hand are and figure out solutions to those. And much of entrepreneurship is not really, finding some disruptive or unthought of idea. It's primarily solving problems. And so rather than anticipating what the problems are going to be way down the road, focus on the ones that you have right in front of you and solve those. Because one of the things you can count on is that the problems that you think you're going to have within a year, probably aren't the ones that you'll have. So focus on the ones that you need to, to get to that point. And that really is what the movie is all about. But it's told in a far more interesting way than that.

As a guy who spent many years in different cities, Philadelphia, New York, Houston, for that matter, places around the world, how does Waterbury offer something that may be intriguing to others?

It's the people. It's just no question. It's the people. our organization is built on people and it's the energy and the passion and the determination and the strength and the character of the people that walk into our facility. We've had like any entrepreneurial organization, our ups and downs, we've had our setbacks, and we've, we've had our moments of tremendous and incredibly ecstatic progress. and these are attributable to the staff that come here every day from my, top leaders and the people that report to me, to the folks that are working in the tanks every day, to the folks that, harvest the fish, and process these beautiful creatures into something that the local community, as well as the extended community, want to eat. It's the people and, to a person, my staff, my employees are all located right here in the Waterbury area. And it is, what's made us successful. And, and that's something that you can't look at in the papers and, and, or, online and figure out. You have to go out and meet them. You have to sort of see what the labor force here is like. And what you have is, an ethic in this community, that is resoundingly American. It's all about, working hard, working fairly, working honestly, and, and doing it in a way that gives as opposed to takes. And, and everything, that I've encountered from the support of the administration and, the municipal municipal organization here to the staff that come to work every day has been consistent in that regard. It's the people.

If you were to provide a macro view, where's the city of Waterbury, where's the Waterbury region headed?

Oh, I think it's exciting. I mean, first of all, it's a beautiful area of the state, I didn't really get to know this part of Connecticut at all until I began working here. we were kind of , I-95er's we were coming up and down from Boston and Maine and, to, to, to Baltimore, to DC, on I-95. And sort of, heading west up Route 8 and 91 was never part of our trouble plan, for no good reason, just wasn't. so, being able to start my day with a cup of coffee in my car, seeing the beautiful, Naugatuck greater river valley and, the panoramic view of the city nestled in the foothills here, is just a great way to start. and, it's got a great future. It's had a great past, it's had its setbacks as have all cities in this country, where manufacturing was a key part of their economic bread and butter and Waterbury has been no different. But, what I think we're going to see is that, manufacturing, geographies have a second wind coming. And the second wind is going to be driven by innovation by building, equipment and products that address, environmental and sustainability issues on which this, I think, the health and wellbeing of our planet depend. If we don't figure out better ways to convey people around than burning fossil fuels, if we don't figure out more sustainable ways of feeding human populations that do not destroy or compromise, not only our fertile, growing soils or our oceans, if we don't find better ways of managing, our water resources, we're going to be, as a civilization, heading down a very dangerous path. And I think, areas like Waterbury that have all of the requisite tools and a, a labor force that is adaptive, flexible, and understands how to apply what historically, they've learned how to do, to new applications are going to lead, the country in, in this transformation. And I think we're already starting to see it happen here. we're already seeing hydroponic, vegetable growers. We're, we're seeing, food processing hubs, which is a major project, that the mayor pushed through. and in time we will likely branch into some form of hydroponics, as well. so I think the city has a fantastic future ahead of it, a tremendous promise, because it has already, the things that are needed to build a successful business, and expand a critical mass quickly.

Here's your chance. Last question. You've got the opportunity to succinctly pitch me on bringing my business or looking at a commercial property in Waterbury. Why should I do that?

You should do it because what you need to be convinced of before you make a decision like this is, will this enable my success? Ultimately, that as a business owner is what you have to be able to convince your stakeholders of whether they are your shareholders, your employees, your suppliers, the people for whom what you do matters. You have to be able to say with a high degree of confidence, that this decision to relocate to Waterbury will increase substantially the prospects of success. And if you can't say that then you need to rethink the decision. And whether it's the labor force that's here, the access to robust industrial infrastructure, commercial office space, and an administration that understands the risks that businesses need to take in order to become established or to grow. You have the trifecta; everything that you need is here. And that's got to be, what you base your decision on.

This was great. Thank you so much for the time, Eric.

My pleasure, Grant. It's great to see you.